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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 09:58:51 -0500
From: 0mn1vore <SeeSig@BitBucket.nul>
Organization: Anne Ville's Bodywork and Metal Shop
Subject: Re: {ASSD} Re: Stock Exchange Bleeds Our Economy Dry Once More
Date: Wed, 17 Sep 2008 07:58:31 -0700
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In <g0v0d4pa475qqgks3epllffinl9f298tar@4ax.com> Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:40:18 -0500, Damaeus said:
> Subject: {ASSD} Re: Stock Exchange Bleeds Our Economy Dry Once More
> From: Damaeus <damaeus@yahoo.com>
> Newsgroups: aus.politics,uk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,misc.consumers,alt.sex.stories.d
> Followup-To: aus.politics,uk.politics.misc,alt.conspiracy,misc.consumers,alt.sex.stories.d
Hmm.
Houston, we have a tro... well maybe just a stoner. I'm not sure.
Anyway, excessive cross-posting is considered rude.
> Message-ID: <g0v0d4pa475qqgks3epllffinl9f298tar@4ax.com>
> X-Newsreader: Forte Agent 4.2/32.1117
> User-Agent: Hamster/2.1.0.11
> Date: Tue, 16 Sep 2008 23:40:18 -0500
>
> In news:alt.conspiracy, St Georges Day April 23rd
> <bbbbbdfgdfgdgddfg@googlemail.com> posted on Tue, 16 Sep 2008 16:03:21
> -0700 (PDT):
>
>> For the last 36 hours the collapse, or more accurately the deflation,
>> of Lehman Brothers has left markets around the world in a state of
>> frenzy.
>
> Fascinating, isn't it? How one company deflating could affect the
> entire world market. What ties to the market gives this company such
> profound influence on the global economy? And why is that much power
> being handled by one company?
>
>> Last night the Hang Seng Index lost 1000 points; the FTSE, over the
>> last two days has lost around 7%. With the markets reporting record
>> volatility, many traders will be keeping their powder dry, waiting for
>> more reliable moments to strike.
>
> Were there any other possible influences on the market besides that of
> Lehman Brothers?
>
>> Others will be following in the shadows of Dick Fuld the CEO of
>> Lehman, by taking huge risks, and making or losing huge sums. If
>> investment bankers have the capacity for sympathy it is surely for
>> fellow investment bankers. Although one banker's gain is most likely
>> to another's detriment, there must be a familial understanding of the
>> emotions of going through the highs and lows of gambling for a living.
>> But do they deserve such sentiment?
>
> Apparently not. All I've ever heard about money-hungry people is that
> they're all ruthless, and sentiment has no place in economics if you
> want to stay on top of the game. So that one banker's gain is
> another's detriment is all part of getting into the rat race. The
> lack of sentiment just gives one a bigger advantage in their attempts
> to get "high scores" in their portfolios.
>
>> The papers today had a reality-TV style theme to their reporting
>> of Lehman-gate. To paraphrase: "It's awful; 158 years old;
>> terrible; employees don't know when they will be paid; tut-tut;
>> ah well they nearly got Merrill Lynch too; probably going to get
>> worse." Then some small section of some small article deduces
>> that some untouchables (in the western "old-boys" sense, rather
>> than the Indian caste sense) must have done some serious lying
>> for things to have gotten as bad as this.
>
> Well, it all began to go south when people began using money for
> things it was never meant to be used for. It's been turned into a
> tool to control the distribution of goods and services, as well as
> being used as a rod against wage earners. Money is used to punish
> those who make mistakes in their attempts to climb the social ladder.
> As it stands now, the wealthiest people in the country are wagering
> that they can convince the rest of us to work for just enough money to
> survive, and maybe a little extra money for some luxuries if you can
> manage to scrape up enough to go to college and then pay off the
> debts, with interest. So far, their plan has succeeded.
>
>> Once it is realised that this collapse was inevitable; that
>> Lehman's previous performance was due to its high-risk nature and
>> that the "value of your investments and can go up as well as
>> down" as adverts have told us for years, there is only one
>> newsworthy part left of the story the human side.
>
> Indeed. Fortunately we always get around to the humans in these
> ordeals.
>
>> One particularly prominent story involves the heart-breaking news
>> of a dog-walker in Kensington whose business has suffered
>> instantly, because ex-Lehman lemons now have the time to walk
>> their dogs themselves.
>
> So what is the current financial situation of the company's
> management? They managed to climb the social ladder, but everything
> fell apart once they reached the top. Is all their money and property
> being taken away after making so many mistakes, or are they still
> living in ultra-luxury, even though they turned out to essentially
> demote themselves to pizza delivery drivers in one fell swoop?
>
> Nothing against pizza delivery. I've done it myself, but I got sick
> of it after 13 years of doing it: 1991-1997, 2003-2008. Doesn't
> amount to anything with the constant vehicle maintenance, tires,
> brakes, gasoline. I was spending $500-$600 a month on petrol.
>
> I know that sounded angry. I'm still working on getting over having
> worked so hard all my life, being honest, trustworthy, etc... and I
> still have nothing to show for it, despite being told it's always best
> to tell the truth, be honest, upfront about everything. And I have
> nothing. Am I to become a liar and a cheat to succeed in this world?
> Is that what it takes to survive? I can't do that and still live with
> myself.
>
>> On this evidence alone I hereby call for massive emergency tax
>> relief on all investment bankers.
>
> Why? All that does is save a sinking ship and protect the people who
> screwed it all up in the first place. Then the sinking ship continues
> to drag the economy down with it. It's better to let it go down in
> flames, then replace the people who fucked it up to begin with.
>
>> Although there are 26,000 losing their jobs at a time of
>> uncertainty, most of the people for whom you should feel sympathy
>> will find employment immediately.
>
> Why should we feel sympathy for those who find immediate employment?
> That's like feeling sympathy for Jim Carrey when he scores a $20
> million movie deal. Why aren't you suggesting that we feel sympathy
> for those who can't find work after losing their jobs in a time of
> uncertainty?
>
>> The support staff, which must number a huge proportion of the
>> recently-unemployed mass, will likely soon find work, thanks to
>> their transferable skills and experience of operating under
>> enormous pressure.
>
> But above you spoke about this being a time of uncertainty. How do
> you support your claim to them being able to find work so easily if
> times are so uncertain right now?
>
>> As usual, however we are coerced into feeling sorry for the big
>> fallers: the executives with tens of millions of worthless stock
>> options.
>
> Being aware of having been coerced into feeling sorry for the big
> fallers in the past, do you continue to do that, or are you trying to
> be satirical? I must tell you, I abhore satire. Since I have a
> serious outlook on fixing the world's problems, satire reads as
> something someone has come to accept as a normal part of life. It
> isn't. I read satire and it almost makes me want to cry because it
> makes things seem as if people have given up on discovering better
> ways to live.
>
>> Which would be awful for them and their families were it not for
>> the nauseating salaries they had earned up until today; I for one
>> expect these investment bankers to know what to do with their
>> money.
>
> I make the assumption that they're far more careful with their own
> money than with company funds, especially if it's a limited liability
> corporation. The LLC simply makes it possible for an average citizen
> to run a corporation, make a bunch of mistakes, run it down the trash
> heap, and suffer no personal loss as a result. It's an ingenius plan.
>
>> One panicked former trader noted that much of the value of these
>> stocks had already been spent on holiday homes and cars.
>
> "Holiday homes and cars"? As one who has had my own apartment a
> couple of times, I can appreciate the sense of liberty. But why would
> anyone want extra homes for the holidays? It seems like a big hassle
> with all the extra furniture and upkeep, unless you hire a crew of
> workers to maintain all your personal property.
>
>> So maybe they'll have to cope with just the eight-bed in Surrey,
>> the fleet of his'n'hers Mercedes, and an A-Class for Petunia. A
>> young prospective trader, whose career has been temporarily at
>> least aborted, told of a joke he heard from a French friend:
>> "Lehman employees were putting only £5 on their canteen cards so
>> they would not lose any money." Oh, the French (t)wit.
>
> How would that prevent them from losing money?
>
>> For the last 15 years Fuld has been the guy to work for. His risk-
>> taking brought untold riches to his employees. He was legendary for
>> spreading the wealth that he created around his staff at the bank.
>> Today his portrait outside the Lehman office is covered in messages of
>> anger, quotes of Fuld saying, "Lehman is well capitalised".
>>
>> The messages I find most bizarre are the ones accusing him of greed,
>> as if greed is such a repulsive, unnecessary requirement by bankers
>> for their leader. His ex-employees who have basked in his golden
>> shower for a decade-and-a-half obviously don't feel sorry for him. I
>> find it hard to feel sorry for wealthy, well-educated, ambitious
>> bankers who are now turning on the man that got them where they are.
>
> Do you think greed is an inherent human trait or is it something that
> can be controlled?
>
> Damaeus
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