Path: not-for-mail
NNTP-Posting-Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 21:53:48 -0500
From: "Stasya T. Canine" <stasyatk9NOSPAMED@juno.com>
Newsgroups: alt.sex.stories.d
Subject: Re: {ASSD} The transgendered on usenet - Another steroetype?
Date: Fri, 14 Jul 2006 19:55:59 -0700
Reply-To: stasyatk9NOSPAMED@juno.com
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References: <ek3gb2hcncs2h4fcnegtopgrq3llro5ej8@4ax.com> <32508.1152925892.altan1@bigfoot.DOnotSPAM.com>
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On Sat, 15 Jul 2006 01:11:32 GMT, Altan <altan1@bigfoot.DOnotSPAM.com>
wrote:
>
>Hi Stasya, I'm trying to understand what you are saying but I'm
>having a hard time.
>
snorts... OK. After that session trying to wade through 3+ years
of ng posts, I'm not surprised at any communications problems here.
Let's see what I can do...
>I always understood "transgendered" to be someone who feels they
>are locked in the "wrong" body, that their body should have been
>that of the opposite sex. I guess my understanding of the term
>would be closer to what you found in the newsgroup.
>
OK. NP with that attitude/understanding of the term.
My understanding is a bit more generic and includes that aspect. I
suspect that in the nine years since I accepted I could use it in
reference to myself, the generally accepted meaning has changed.
The 'definition', as I learned it, applies to anyone who has aspects
of their gender that is in conflict with their physical gender.
These attitudes, emotional reactions and so forth are what their
culture would consider appropriate to the opposite physical gender.
For many the wrong body issue is seen as the only solution that would
let them live with the 'problems' or, in fact eliminate the conflicts.
Mostly, the reduction in stress is because people see the physical
body and associate certain expectations with the physical gender of
the person they are dealing with. A major problem is caused by
knowing that people use what they see to judge you and react to you.
It's not as rare as it used to be but it's still unusual to meet
people who take you as a package and not expect your attitudes and
emotional responses to be those their culture expects based on your
physical gender.
When I was growing up and in my teens, my long hair, seen from the
back, along with my then slender build, caused a lot of men to
approach me like I was a female. :) Now, long hair is common enough
that it isn't considered a primary visual sexual characteristic of
females. Anyone wanting to make the distinction looks closer before
assuming a physical gender of their target.
But, it isn't that simple when emotions and inner attitudes are
involved.
>If that is not what you are looking for, I'm really confused what
>would be the difference between your second item ("Basic emotional
>attitudes and reactions are those usually expected from western
>culture females") and your fifth ("Not a 'male in touch with his
>female aspects'").
Here's a simple example:
When a woman says 'no'. or names a price for something she wants to
sell, it's usually non-negotiable and the other person accepts that.
When the same thing, in the same tone, is said by a man, there is
quite often the unspoken agreement that the 'no' or price is still
negotiable.
I've found it annoying that most men feel that I'm kidding or not
serious when I say 'no' or say a price is final and not
negotiable--and they get extremely upset and sometimes verbally
abusive for my refusal to consider things further.
Given that blindness, it's extremely frustrating to try and
continually explain things.
That's part of the 'wrong body' issue I think, but certainly not all
of it.
Simply, changing the body to reflect the cultural expectations is an
easy way out. I can understand people taking it, even while I condemn
the social conditions that make it work so well. It's a visual label
that bypasses what I see as the real problem and avoids more permanent
social solutions, ie education.
sighs... I'm old enough to remember when 'getting in touch with your
female side' was a catch phrase and a man couldn't be a man unless he
admitted he sometimes felt the 'softer' feelings.
There's been a shift in cultural expectations based on physical
gender. the 'roles' have blurred somewhat in some places and in
others they've stayed the same, or in some places hardened. The
influx of different cultures has also served to loosen or harden
expectations.
I don't know if I can make the difference clear between the two
concepts because for me 'being a man' is a conscious role I play,
something I had to learn by observation, not pick up from my
surroundings as a child. My knowledge of how a 'real man' interacts
with the world is based on conscious observation, not what I would
have picked up unconsciously if I'd had a father figure living at home
all the time.
Because of that I don't have a lot of the unconscious knowledge that
would make my 'male reactions' look and feel 'authentic'. Because I
was raised by my mother, based on her vision of what a man should be,
all of the emotional 'reflexes' I have were absorbed unconsciously
from her reactions. Under stress, when I don't have time to
consciously think about my reactions, my attitudes are distinctly
'female' in their flavor.
I'm physically male and comfortable thinking of myself that way, most
of the time. I'm not ashamed to be a male, in spite of the times I've
run into the odd female, or male, who tries to mentally castrate me.
:)
However, because my 'male responses' have a definite element of
conscious effort behind them, 'true men' can sometimes consciously or
unconsciously detect that I'm 'acting like a man' and not 'reacting
like a man'.
I think that's where some of the problems happen. Under some
conditions I react more like a concerned female would--and both of us
never realize it on a conscious level. Now that I'm more aware, I do
watch for that and try to keep it under control, or shut down.
sighs...
Should I be more open about it?
Yes/ no. Generally, no. Ignoring my bisexuality, how many
comfortably het men would be able to relax and be comfortable around a
man who normally looks at men more from the female pov? Too many
would automatically freeze and think 'gay!' and be very uncomfortable.
>
>I am a man, happy to be a man, and not interested in other men
>-- neither sexually not socially. I like women, prefer to work
>and communicate and interact with women. I don't have any need
>to be "macho", don't like sports, don't like to do typical male
>things. In fact, I think I fit every one of your items, except
>maybe that I might be more a "male in touch with his female
>aspects." Yet I don't think I am what you are looking for. But
>I am kind of curious to understand what you ARE looking for.
<tic>
What am I looking for?
A man to have some serious 'girl talk' with.
</tic>
Well, relax, I guess, because there's an important aspect you don't
fit. I *am* interested in men sexually and socially.
One of the things I'm looking for is how other men like myself handle
(ok, seduce if the situation seems appropriate) dealing with another
man they are sexually interested in as a female, not as a male. IOW,
how the hell do they minimize the physically gay aspects and emphasize
the het emotions involved?
Obviously, a transgendered male who is not also a transsexual would
understand what's going on.
Another question, equally interesting to me is the 'reverse
situation'.
How does a transgendered male deal with asking a woman to be 'male to
his female'?
For that matter, how does he find a woman who sees it as a true role
reversal and not just some sort of 'female taking on the male aspect
for some role playing'? (Which it would be but with a more serious
intent, that of true lovers.)
One of the problems I have is that I go through 'gender swings' that
can leave me in various mental and sexual states. Normally, I'm
strongly het. However, I can also be strongly gay with a preference
of being a top or a bottom. Or, I can be 'female' and find myself
strongly needing a man in my life who is willing to be the strong one
for me, as well as take me sexually as he would a woman. Part of that
is also my desire to be there for him, to comfort him and be there
when he needs to be held.
A small, seemingly trivial detail about my life. I live alone, except
for the dogs. Generally I live in the nude unless I'm expecting or
have company. There are times when I have to bend over to pick
something up. A simple act. However, there are times when I
consciously think of how I'm exposing myself when I bend over.
Naturally, there are times when I think about exposing my asshole and
my penis and scrotum. If I'm in more of a 'gay mood' of course I
sometimes think of exposing my 'male cunt'.
OTOH, almost equally frequently, I think about how I am exposing my
'pussy' or 'cunt' and there is no thought of being male. I *am*
thinking of how my 'availability' might be a turn on for the right
man, though.
It's a weird situation and it would nice if I could have someone else
who is also familiar with it all to turn to for advice based on their
own experiences.
I'd settle for the kind of relaxed chat that can be had between two
people who share something in common.
HTH, feel free to comment, etc.
----
"Youthful arrogance. Where are you now?
Dead. Long dead and better so."
-- Liaya Stevens --
~~~
http://www.furnation.com/Nikkolai - Furry, general audience